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Risk Fragility: Recognize and Follow Earned Power

3/1/2015

40 Comments

 
PicturePatrisse Cullors, Opal Tometti, and Alicia Garza, the queer Black women who created #BlackLivesMatter.















With trembling fingers pounding my keyboard, I wrote a poem called "The Cry of the White Man" during freshman year of college. It was a response to a series of people suggesting that my way of looking at the world was influenced by my identities--especially as a straight White man. I had never been asked to consider where my ways of thinking and acting came from, and it shook me to my core. I felt scared and defenseless. Why were people judging me based on things I didn't choose, identities I didn't ask for, actions I never took?

Although I am willing to publicly explore almost anything about myself and the way I have been conditioned to think and act as a straight White man, I will spare you from reading my poem, "The Cry of the White Man." Suffice it to say the poem included lines like these:

Go ahead, judge me on it
Did I choose this?
No, fuck you I won't apologize
I have no one to apologize to
How do I defend myself in a world where my groups are all wrong?

A decade later, as I read the abstract of Westfield State University professor Robin DiAngelo’s article, “White Fragility,” my fingers trembled once again.
White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress...leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. 
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As a White American, I intimately know each of these reactions to this idea of “race-based stress.” The poem I wrote in college could have been primary source material for Prof. DiAngelo's article. She had laid me out on the table and dissected me. 

While recovering from what I was reading, I began to wonder about the other end of the spectrum: race-based stamina. Black Americans are reminded of their Blackness all day, every day--a stream of reminders, most of them accompanied with overt or implied negativity about Blackness. If a Black person has to swim through that all day long, they would have to develop an incredible resilience or they wouldn’t be able to get out of bed. 


I marvel at the fact that Black people can stomach the daily facing of a society that consistently devalues them, let alone stand reaching out across the racial divide to engage in good faith with people who largely refuse to acknowledge the depth and stench of this racist stew. 

When it comes to understanding identity politics, I try to always keep an intersectional perspective (understanding that different identities intersect and impact each other--my experience of being White is also affected by my gender, class status, sexual orientation, etc.). So I began to think about fragilities beyond Whiteness.

If White fragility exists because White people have the privilege of being largely protected from race-based stress, then what about the existence of fragility based on other privileged identities? Specifically, do male fragility and hetero fragility exist?  

Want to get your ass whipped in the high school men’s locker room? Just say something that implies that the biggest guy there is either gay or a woman. We men are brought up to be so fragile in our masculinity and our sexuality that we feel obligated to defend ourselves at the slightest threat. We must not only deny the accusation, we must assault our accuser to make sure they never say something like that again. 

Meanwhile, every day, women are constantly reminded that much of our society thinks them inferior to men. And people who identify as queer are endlessly reminded that their sexuality does not compute with the way sex is "supposed" to be. People with these identities must develop a resilience, which I have never needed, in order to survive, maintain self-respect, and engage with a world of power structures that disapprove of their very existence.

Do the separate fragilities/resiliences that accompany race, gender, and sexuality intersect to create a sort of intersectional identity fragility/resilience? 

If so, who is least likely to be resilient in their engagement with the world around them? 

Who, when presented with real, existential threats by a hostile world, is least likely to be prepared to stare those threats down and emerge victorious?

Beyond just staring down those threats, who is least prepared to do the truly hard work--to sit with those existential threats, forge a path forward regardless, and even come to compromise with those threats when necessary? 

The people least likely to be ready for such resilience are my brethren--straight, White, men. 

And people bearing identities we have labeled as inferior--Black, queer, female, immigrant, fat, transgender, disabled, among others--carry with them, by necessity, a potential for resilience beyond what someone like me is likely to ever know.


But whose leadership have me and my brethren historically bought into, inspired by projections of strength and resilience?


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Three famous straight White, men.
With fragility and resilience in mind, I celebrate the #BlackLivesMatter movement which is shaking the foundations of our country. For 400 years, we’ve claimed to be the land of equality, while building our economic and political might on the backs of Black and brown-skinned people, who we punish for their contributions.

None of us, oppressors or oppressed, are free, though our chains are different. Black and brown-skinned people, immigrants, women, queer, transgender, and financially-poor people in America struggle to survive within systems of material and economic oppression. Meanwhile, people with privileged identities like me are corralled into acting as storm troopers in the battle against those not like us, defending a system that provides for us materially while destroying our humanity in servitude to a system of violence and savagery. 

The people best positioned to lead us to freedom are the people who’ve had to fight for it every day of their lives. When I am learning to choose to follow the leadership of women, of Black people, of queer people, it’s not out of a sense of guilt, but a realization that these are the strongest people we’ve got in the monumental struggle to actually live up to the ideals we profess as a country--freedom, equality, and opportunity. 


Who better to lead the battle against the White supremacist system (which isolates me and my White brethren and forces our complicity in harming people of color) than the Black and brown people that are targets of that system?
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Who better to lead the charge against patriarchy (which forces me and my fellow men to live up to illusions of masculinity that destroy our emotional health and our ability to connect with people) than the female-bodied people that are targets of that system?
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Who better to lead the fight against heteronormativity (which restricts straight peoples’ social circles, sexualities, and freedom of expression by instilling in us a deep fear of being labeled gay) than the GLBTQ people that are targets of that system?
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In the process of learning to de-program and re-program myself to follow the leadership of people that society trained me to brush aside, I am allowed to unfold more fully as a human being. So after 32 years of living, I finally understand that I do not need to be in charge of everything I'm involved in. That realization should go without saying, but I can see now that I was raised to expect myself to be capable of leadership and decision-making in any arena I might find myself in, simply because society told me that I am smarter, more objective, and wiser than people who aren't straight White men. 

Now I see such delusional expectations of myself as a form of velvet chains, endowing me with both supreme confidence in myself and also a crippling fear of not being able to live up to what I believed I was capable of. These realizations are only possible thanks to the opportunity I have to practice following the earned leadership of Black people, women, and people who identify as queer.

Luckily for my fellow straight White men (I love you guys!), our leadership is still critical and needed. Here are some ways that we can work to forge a new, redefined mantle of leadership as society's privileged children.
  • We can learn to listen to and follow the earned leadership of Black people, of women, and of people who identify as queer. 
  • We can learn how to speak confidently and with love to other people with privileged identities. How can we learn to talk to White people about White supremacy? How can we learn to talk to men about patriarchy? This is our work to do and we are very much needed as leaders here. 
  • We can learn to face the mirror and shed light onto our own experiences with privilege, allowing us to see our personal stake in the collective liberation of all people and the planet.
  • We can join (or start) a White affinity group, which offers us the space, time, and community to develop our analysis and practice as White people fighting against White supremacy. 
  • We can read the writing that we were taught not to read!

Abandoning the delusions we were raised on, we can lead and inspire our brethren to be strong enough to let go of that which we never earned. 


We can start over.  

#blacklivesmatter

--Abe Lateiner
40 Comments
Anna
3/2/2015 03:57:24 am

Thank you for highlighting "White Fragility" article by DiAngelo. Race-based stamina --> I think most whites don't have a clue. Disheartened this morning with LA shooting of Black unarmed homeless man, yet pleased it made it into mainstream media outlets for once.

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Abraham Lateiner
3/2/2015 06:58:09 am

Anna, the interesting thing is that I think White people all have a gut understanding of White fragility (except those who have been completely sheltered from racial analysis of any kind). We have to confront it, unfortunately it's all too easy to run away immediately. The challenge is being able to see it and not become defensive!

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GemGirl
3/16/2015 04:18:14 pm

Great article. Blessings to you for evolving to these necessary insights. Real world application will be most challenging for most white males, and I do not concern myself any longer with the egos of those whose willful ignorance allow them to disrespect me based on race and gender. I do not have much patience for people who want me to think they are superior ( been there and done that and paid tremendous prices) but I do have compassion and wish them well on their journey.

White men need to be reminded that after a while, there is nothing cute or redeeming about a hierarchy that suggests those who are not white or male are problems. Common sense says diverse people exist and do not want to emulate everything about the ways of white men.

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Abe Lateiner
3/17/2015 07:05:42 am

GemGirl, I'm with you. This is the work that I'm dedicating myself to...work that is uniquely mine and my brethren's to do as fellow straight White males. No way could we expect POCs and women to do the heavy lifting of bringing White men to the side of racial justice and feminism!

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Kathryn
3/16/2015 04:53:11 pm

Yes! Thank you, Abe.

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Abe Lateiner
3/17/2015 07:06:06 am

Thanks for reading and appreciating, Kathryn!

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John
3/16/2015 09:11:59 pm

Wow Abraham. You just gave every liberal university student a raging white guilt erection. Unfortunately I have not been so so aroused.

White people are fragile because they are uncomfortable discussing race issues? Who are these white people? You mean many of the white inexperienced kids on college campuses who are unaccustomed to the aggressive and militant liberal and minority activist types who would rather shame you and call names than actually engage in intelligent debate? Who value unreserved emotion and justified rage to dictate their thinking as opposed to logic or tact? Perhaps that is why young white people are uncomfortable engaging with them.

Now, I view your perspective on "resilience" to be quite lenient. Black, transgender, queer, fatties deal with a lot of additional stress in their lives no doubt, but just because they remain alive, refrain from plunging off a bridge is because they are "resilient?" Too me these people who are most vocal in their struggles mostly represent the epitome of absolute weakness. They inflame racial tensions, they cultivate, foster and encourage negativity. They are so quick to label everything "racist" yet have no clue as to what causes or drives racism. They will claim they do but the reality is they don't and they don't care to understand it either. It is either be a good white person, apologize for being a racist and accept everything I tell you, otherwise you are a racist. The typical debate is so illogical it is like we are speaking a different language. I have found that discussing the topics of race in America are pointless with a person of color because they have zero emotional reserve, and I find more interest in liberal whites.

I didn't intend to make this long winded and I really didn't address much but this was an interesting read to see the other side of the spectrum, and I am interested in other peoples opinions differing from my own. I mean you truly accept the dogma of all that is liberal political correctness. But of all you have expressed, to me the most twisted of it all is this "illusions of masculinity." This is a direct refusal of reality. This may go over well with the ignorant but to deny the very real behavioral influences of masculinity is just pathetic. Our behavior is not something we have absolute control over, hormones are real, testosterone is real, oxytocin is real and it pumps through our veins. It influences how we behave. Please Abraham, enlighten me on how hormonal influences do not alter our behavior. As a physiology major I would REALLY like to know.

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GemGirl
3/17/2015 04:34:23 am

John, your response reeks of the kind of arrogance that makes me want to flee fast from the presence of people that Abe wrote about so well .

You know the ones who assume their race and gender make them natural leaders, but they drive the rest of the world crazy because they truly don't know their limitations but try to impose a view of themselves as superior onto others, who actually see through their ego-based BS.

Get out of yourself, dude....the world does not revolve only around you.

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Abe Lateiner
3/17/2015 07:12:08 am

John, I am glad to hear my writing doesn't give you an erection! That's all I have to say about that.

You seem to think I've been spoon-fed some liberal ideology that I have unquestioningly swallowed. But this is my lived experience, not just me reading an article and taking it on faith.

Are you saying that you think I haven't been hurt by masculinity? Are you saying I haven't felt fragile in my own Whiteness? Are you saying I haven't been terrified at the thought of being labeled gay?

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Gail
3/17/2015 12:38:33 am

No. You can and must develop resiliency and resistance to BS. If you grow up profiting from lies about other people, you MUST cast that garbage off and do better. Don't make a new lie, that we have some weird "ability" that you don't. Thats weird bs.

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Abe Lateiner
3/17/2015 07:15:43 am

Gail, from my post: "And people bearing identities we have labeled as inferior--Black, queer, female, immigrant, fat, transgender, disabled, among others--carry with them, by necessity, a potential for resilience beyond what someone like me is likely to ever know."

"potential for resilience" is not "some weird ability." Just being Black, or a woman, or queer doesn't guarantee anything about one's resilience. That's why I used the word "potential."

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MM
3/17/2015 01:18:24 am

A great analysis. Very insightful. Thanks!

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Abraham Lateiner
3/18/2015 05:41:12 am

Thanks for reading, MM!

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Sherry
3/17/2015 10:24:54 am

Thank you for this honest analysis. I agree that being labelled and treated as "other" is a challenge we (black and female) have to overcome daily. But we aren't as resilient as you may think. The prevalence of heart disease, obesity, drug addiction, strokes and other diseases in the black community is evidence that the constant stress of just having to face a world that treats us as less than fully human does incalculable damage, both physical and psychological. Those of us who do well in spite of the obstacles may be resilient, but far too many of our brethren don't survive or thrive in this country.
Keep writing; it's appreciated.

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Abraham Lateiner
3/18/2015 05:44:42 am

Sherry, thank you so much for reading and highlighting a needed clarification in my piece. You are absolutely right...healthcare data is unambiguous when it comes to documenting the physiological damage that racism does to Americans of color. So what I *should* have said is that the resilience I speak of here is emotional and character-based, and separate from physical resilience. Thank you!

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Abraham Lateiner
3/18/2015 05:47:05 am

And also, when it comes to psychological damage (which you also pointed out), you are again right. The negative psychological impacts of racism are real and so it's important for me to stress the *potential* for resilience, as opposed to claiming that all POC/women/queer folks automatically are more resilient.

laprofe63
3/17/2015 12:03:11 pm

Interesting way of putting it, also interesting how you never used the word solidarity. (Or at least I don't remember reading it.) That to me is what you're really talking about.

I agree with you. We can listen to others a lot more before we talk and always strive to listen more than speak.

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mbcpurple
5/31/2015 06:11:45 am

Enjoyed reading the article. It's interesting that one may feel a need to challenge or "one up" it as opposed to contributing to the extension of the conversation. We've heard similar perspectives in the past, but not as insightful and transparent. Thank you.

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Abraham Lateiner
5/31/2015 01:49:00 pm

Thanks for reading, mbcpurple. Transparency is my only way forward. Glad to hear it means something to others out there in the world.

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Nancy M. Thurston link
6/3/2015 08:24:42 am

I've been rereading your blog for several days. I find the concept of race(or other) stress/fragility vs stamina fascinating with powerful information. You mention one way of addressing this discrepancy-- "following the earned leadership of Black people, women..." Another alternative is outlined in Be Present, Inc.'s "Black and Female Leadership Initiative" where the visibility of Black women's leadership in the social justice movement is demonstrated by "partnering with diverse people to create sustainable change that serves everyone in our communities." That requires all of us to fully participate in leadership within the collective as together we "cross boundaries of all types- such as race, gender, class, age, religion and culture--[committing] to cooperative learning, joint action, shared responsibility and mutual accountability." Thank you for sharing your thoughts so clearly that they sparked my pondering!

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Abraham Lateiner
6/4/2015 04:04:03 am

Hi Nancy, thanks for reading and commenting. I think asking myself "what does it look like to follow earned leadership?" is central. And I'm sure that there are many models to work off of. What I've found is that if my head and heart aren't in the right place, the models don't matter...my efforts are sabotaged from the start! It would be a great idea to follow up with this post with a "what does it mean to follow earned leadership? What does that look like on a mundane, day-to-day level? You've got me thinking...

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Nancy M. Thurston link
6/5/2015 03:31:02 am

I am excited by the thinking that is flowing from our conversation. Yes, if our "head and heart aren't in the right place, the models don't matter." And I am very interested, and pondering, what this looks like on a "mundane, day-to-day level." Still working with my wonderings of whether for me this looks like following earned leadership or taking responsibility for my own leadership (noticing then shifting away from any messed up assumptions and power, for example) within the collective. I've been diving into your archived blogs and look forward to the next.

R. Roy
8/27/2015 11:25:21 am

Blacks and feminists that started and support this social justice movement are the very definition of fragile. They are not resilient, strong or clever or even creative. Whining and complaining about your situation is not testing the fragility or resiliency of white devils you envy so much - it just makes them loath you that much more. While you're busy complaining, everyone else is expanding their talents, getting educated, and taking care of their business. Just see how far the "whining" trip takes you? Do people whine all the way to the top? sure they do. There are a few professional whiners out there heavily supported by their whiner minions. Do something with your life and take care of your families and you will earn the respect of everyone around you.
You try to get the government to heavily regulate and heavily tax the evil big corporations in America. They pick up and move to mexico or China and all the paid positions go with them too. The communist marxist machine won't lead to prosperity here in the U.S. It will turn us into Detroit - the epitome of failure.

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Abraham Lateiner
8/28/2015 04:01:39 am

R. Roy, you sound like you are an advocate for passive acceptance of the status quo. I wonder what the "Founding Fathers" would say about that? Were they just "whining" about the British empire when they rebelled against it?

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R. Roy
8/28/2015 09:23:48 am

My last answer might of sounded like a non-sequitur to your response, and it is to that I'm writing now, because your answer sounded non-sequitur to my reply.
"The Founding Fathers" is indeed a mixed bag of religious, and thankfully non-religious. We can not go without blaming the religious who allowed and defended slavery in this country. It is through thoughtful reason and discussion, and consideration of those discussions we shall resolve our differences, not through excommunication and silencing the differences of opinions, or lying to save face for the purpose of creating a narrative.
I'm perfectly aware of racist whites in America, and shame on them (individually) for their habits are despicable. I'm aware also of racist blacks in America, that are indoctrinated the same way racist whites are. To say that African Americans cannot be racist, is purely a baseless statement because the facts and evidence that say otherwise speak a different narrative. To say that African Americans cannot make a racist statement or perform a racist act toward a person of another race grants license to behave badly.

Abraham Lateiner
8/28/2015 03:26:59 pm

R. Roy, Black and indigenous people have tried "thoughtful reason and discussion" for 400 years. On the whole, we White people have only been interested in a simulacrum of discussion when it comes to race. I believe that's because it's terrifying for us to consider truly owning up to what the people we decided to call White have done in the name of the made-up construct of race. So we try, at all costs, to avoid such exploration, which is where the concept of White fragility originates. How many more hundreds of years of "thoughtful reason and discussion" are you advocating for, given that that hasn't achieved racial equity yet?

Regarding your point about Black people being racist: You've clearly been challenged before when asserting that there are racist Black people. I recommend you do a quick google search for "difference between racism and racial prejudice" to understand the difference between those two terms. In short: everyone can be racially prejudiced, but to be racist, you need to have an institutional power structure backing your racial prejudice up. When a Black person hates me for being White, they can't kick me out of their neighborhood with redlining. They can't kick me out of their schools. They don't own banks to deny me loans or mortgages. If they call the cops on me for walking down their streets, there's an infinitesimal chance I'll be arrested and locked up for it. Meanwhile, as a White person, I have all of those institutions backing my anti-Black prejudice. Does this make sense?

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R.Roy
8/29/2015 12:26:56 am

Mr. Lateiner,
"black and indigenous people"? It almost sounds like you're changing the subject to fit another different popular narrative to demonize whites. This effort comes from a person without American history knowledge - not the new communist-liberal-agenda-history-to-fit-a-narrative history, just plain history. Read the stories. Read history that was written for the purpose of telling history, not the history to fit an agenda.
This narrative comes from a fragile person blaming everyone else for their problems - we call this an "external locus of control" [Rotter 1954]. "The white man controls the blacks and the indigenous people, and we're upset about it and we'll stop at nothing to keep this up until you simply give in and give up.

"White people have only been interested in a simulacrum of discussion when it comes to race."?
To compartmentalize whites into a single group, with a single mentality is really no better than to compartmentalize blacks or indigenous people. Is that what we should do? compartmentalize all African Americans to fit an agenda? Not everyone will be interested in that idea. No one can do this with any intelligence. To say that all whites do not want and take action for racial equality is a myth that fits the communist liberal SJW agenda. It's mythical, because it is without evidence to back it, like religion. Faith in this, or the agenda will yield the same result -absolutely nothing good.

I've not been challenged before concerning racist remarks. I've heard statements about racist African Americans from educated African Americans I work with - that are not interested in the current status quo of demonizing whites. They talk about the conversations of skin color among African Americans and how silly that is. Some talk about the fact they had to hide their study materials growing up to avoid "acting white" charges from other more hip black kids.
So by definition, just to be clear, if you assert the greatness of your race, or your love of your race, or put down another race whoever you're with, you are being racist. If you willfully promote the well being of your own race because you're disgusted with other races, when there are other races present, you are performing a racist act regardless of the race of the actor. I hate to have to explain this to you, because you seem fairly articulate and this is not rocket science. When racism is performed, there will be anger because of unfairness and rightfully so. It happened when African Americans were treated unfairly and inhumanely, there were hundreds of thousands of whites that were against the mistreatment of African Americans then just as there are millions against it now. For what good do we have to be racist? to what end? Any thinking person can see this.
In my opinion, the "institutional power construct" flawed racial logic to say that African Americans cannot be racist is frankly.. flawed and dangerous based upon the evidence I've given you. I've had racial sensitivity training. (this further evidence of some extra fragile feelings), so I'm not uninitiated. This never came about from Asians who were mistreated. Only from extra sensitive feelings of blacks feeling inferior. Dare to show me any black person kicked out of school for being black that wasn't immediately made wealthy from the law suit that followed? Show me anyone that a bank would not loan money to in an instant if they thought they'd get their money back with interest? This is a numbers game here, not a color game. If your credit rating is good, anyone can borrow, and they want you to borrow and pay interest. This is not necessarily a good thing, this is a money thing for lending institutions. Your arguments make sense for American society 40 years ago, this is fact. Now, they sound like a person with hurt feelings, feeling powerless, not feeling that "internal locus of control" that many blacks have harnessed and used to improve their lives here. Yes, this is the land of opportunity for all, but whining and complaining will not get you a high school education. There are plenty of grants and black only colleges in the U.S. for students willing to work at their dreams. You still have to show up for it and do your homework.
On the subject of police brutality, see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ , it's funny but true. Chris Rock saw the elephant in the room and correctly identified it and saw the emperor needed clothing training. Be respectful. But, everyone is busy telling folks that evil whites are out to get them, they fail to tell someone how to be respectful when encountering law enforcement. Youtube is a great place to see it in action. It doesn't matter what color you are, when you're being difficult to policemen, it will not pay - unless you're black and it's all on video.
Recently a white officer shot and killed an armed 18 year old that drew his weapon on police in St lious. The riot was sw

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Abraham Lateiner
8/30/2015 08:04:18 am

R. Roy, I am not going to continue debating with you as it's clear that you've made your mind up and there's no budging. I accept that, although your fear, which is shared by so many other White people, makes me sad. But our fear makes sense. We are scared that all the testimonies by people of color about racism are actually true, which would mean that everything we have, everything we've worked for, might not be legitimately earned. It makes sense that we would fight tooth and nail to disprove that, because it threatens our sense of self-worth.

So this is what I'll say to you, and to myself: You and I didn't invent racism. It's not our "fault." We were born into this system. The blame for its creation doesn't rest with us. We can let go of trying to defend ourselves, because it's not our fault. Instead, let's think about it as personal responsibility for our present situations...what responsibility do we have to dismantle unfair systems that we benefit from though we didn't create? We can't control what Black people do, so let's stop wasting time trying to make them do what we want. Instead, let's take personal responsibility for doing our part. There is hope for us and it starts with acceptance of ourselves and loving ourselves and having compassion for our own situations as White people born into a delusional system.

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Fannie LeFlore
8/30/2015 08:55:02 am

Abraham Lateiner -- Your responses to Roy are so on target, so real and so compassionate, white males and other people like you who are willing to face these issues truly give me hope about the potential for more white people to truly understand what dismantling racism is all about. These particular words from you demonstrate this: "We were born into this system. The blame for its creation doesn't rest with us. We can let go of trying to defend ourselves, because it's not our fault. Instead, let's think about it as personal responsibility for our present situations...what responsibility do we have to dismantle unfair systems that we benefit from though we didn't create? We can't control what Black people do, so let's stop wasting time trying to make them do what we want. Instead, let's take personal responsibility for doing our part."

Glad to have you as an ally in the co-liberation journey that will help transform diverse people who are willing to get real and deal, in order to promote positive change that benefits us all.

Abraham Lateiner
8/30/2015 09:06:40 am

Thanks Fannie LeFlore! My first instinct is to respond to my siblings like R. Roy with fury, because they remind me of myself and my own ways of thinking. I'm trying to train myself to have compassion for "them" because "they" are really "me" and there's no one easier to be furious with than ourselves. Compassion is the only way forward.

R. Roy
8/30/2015 05:38:27 pm

Mr. Lateiner
I'm interested in this discussion, and use facts in my points. You don't address the points in my discussion. Is this a place for only like minded liberals to pat each other on the back and weep about their condition? If your feelings are hurt, it's only natural, because losing a debate can't hurt fragile feelings. This is not a debate. It's a discussion about the situation in America, and while I agree that many whites are both prejudice and racist, I think some of the negative behavior toward African Americans is earned. We can both agree that many African Americans are racist as well.
These facts (laid out by an African American) don't bode well or fit your narrative: http://downtrend.com/vsaxena/blacks-murder-more-whites-than-whites-murder-blacks

Abraham Lateiner
8/31/2015 03:18:14 am

R. Roy, I decided to stop engaging you in intellectual debate when you didn't understand (or ignored, not sure which) my distinction between racial prejudice and racism. If you can't or won't grasp that, all discussion about racism is a waste of time because we're not even speaking the same language.

Fannie LeFlore
8/30/2015 10:04:34 am

Oh, no doubt Abraham, compassion is important. And there are times for tough love mixed in with compassion, as you demonstrated by making the decision to stop engaging in an ongoing discussion with Roy. You clearly saw his unwillingness to let go of the pictured focused on trees (individual components that represent exception to rules) in order to see and embrace the forest (the systemic aspects of racism). As a black woman, I had to do compassion with tough love in combination with a white Facebook friend the other day because he crossed boundaries on an issue that was frankly none of his business. I told him he had no right to try to dictate how black people should feel or respond when he behaved as if I had to convince him to support a petition relevant to social justice. I told him I had no interest in trying to change him on the issue. I decided some time ago that I will not debate extensively with individuals beyond a certain point if they don't understand the basic definitions of racism, why systemic racism means that black people cannot be racists and why black people do not need the approval of white people to exist, etc.

It gets old going in circles.

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Abraham Lateiner
8/30/2015 02:31:41 pm

Fannie, thanks for your words of encouragement and much love and power to you in your struggle!!!

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Fannie LeFlore
8/31/2015 08:02:16 am

Roy, you lose credibility when you try to justify white racism by saying that "some of the negative behavior toward African Americans is earned."

White people have a history of violence -- more than any other racial group. They have inflicted genocide on Natives and Africans, raping and torturing people, watching lynchings against fellow human beings as if they were attending a family entertainment event.

White people victimize other white people -- 86% of whites who were murdered involved white perpetrators (FBI data); white people use and sell drugs at same or higher rates as blacks and Hispanics but are less likely to be incarcerated. White people are more likely to be family annihilators, serial killers and general public shooters.

Do white men and women in general deserve your disdain due to "earning" it from the track record of violence among their brethren?

The majority of white people are decent just like the majority of black people are decent human beings -- but you only focus on negatives you associate with black people.

You say blacks deserve -- "earn" mistreatment. See how individuals respond if you disrespect them for no legitimate reason, and then ask whether you deserved disrespect back or to have your feelings hurt. Common sense matters -- if you treat people badly, they are likely to treat you the same way.

I completely understand why anyone would not want to go deeper into conversation with you -- you want other people to do the heavy lifting rather than doing your own thorough research to learn about America's true history.

You are selective in the information you focus on, in order to justify racism. Anyone who can deny the reality of systemic racism and other forms of white violence -- despite evidence everywhere -- is irrational in many ways. .

I'm done now -- no interest in debating when demonstrations of willful ignorance are the norm.

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Randy Johnson
8/31/2015 10:16:25 am

Just some points to ponder when discussing issues of race:
On February 27, the day after the Trayvon Martin shooting, two black males in Detroit abducted and killed a white couple. The victims were found bound, shot and burned beyond recognition in an alley. Police are calling it a random “thrill killing.”

On February 28, in Kansas City, Missouri, two black teens attacked a 13-year-old white boy on his front porch as he was returning from school. They poured gasoline on him and set him on fire for no apparent reason, saying “You get what you deserve white boy!”

On March 14, a 20-year-old black man broke into the home of Bob and Nancy Straight in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He raped the 85-year-old Mrs. Straight and then beat her to death. Then he shot 90-year-old Mr. Straight in the face with a pellet gun and broke his jaw and ribs. He died several days later. The thug stole $200, a TV set and their Dodge Neon, which he drove to a nearby house where he went to hide. The police spotted the stolen car in front of the house and arrested him.

On April 1, in Jackson, Mississippi, a 31-year-old black man broke into a house to rob it and found a white woman inside. He forced her to lie on the floor with a blanket over her head as he shot her in the back of the head, execution-style.

On April 5, in Tunica, Mississippi, a 34-year-old black man checked into a hotel with his pregnant 25-year-old white girlfriend and their one-year-old child. The next day the woman was found dead on the floor brutally mutilated and covered with blood, as was the one-year-old child. The knife was in the room.

On April 15, in Las Vegas, a 22-year-old black man raped a 38-year-old white woman and her 10-year-old daughter. He then killed them by smashing their skulls with a hammer.

On top of all these brutal murders there have been a number of “flash mob” attacks across the country where anywhere from half a dozen to as many as a hundred blacks gang up on innocent people and beat them senseless. In at least 12 of these cases documented by this writer, the blacks have cited revenge for the shooting of Martin as the motive for the savageries, although in many cases the victims were also robbed.

One of these attacks occurred in Norfolk, Virginia, where more than 30 blacks brutally beat a white couple as another 70 blacks watched and cheered them on, a typical phenomenon in these black-on-white “flash mob” attacks. Martin’s name came up as the excuse for the brutality. The couple actually worked for the main newspaper in town, The Virginian Pilot, which has direct political ties to the Obama administration. That publication could not even be bothered to report on the attack of its own employees for two weeks—and even then it was only as an opinion piece written by a friend of the couple.

The couple said the police officer who responded acted strangely. After having been viciously beaten, kicked in the face and dragged by her hair, the battered woman was told by the officer to “shut up and get in the car.” He did not record any names of witnesses and said the attackers were “probably juveniles anyway. What are we going to do? Find their parents and tell them?” Pointing to public housing in the area, he said large groups of “teenagers” look for trouble on the weekends. “It’s what they do,” he told the couple.

Reply
Abraham Lateiner
9/1/2015 02:53:29 am

Randy, your argument seems to be: "Look, some individual Black people have done terrible things! Therefore, all Black people deserve to be treated badly."

Do you apply that kind of logic to other areas besides race? "Some children are really obnoxious, so they all deserve to be punished."

Reply
Randy Johnson
9/1/2015 07:40:50 am

Abraham, this isn't minor anecdotal evidence of a very few isolated incidences, this is just a fraction of African American violence. The violence you read with disinterest is horrendous, and has not been committed by whites to blacks in the last 40 years. I'm pretty sure you just excused it all too, in favor of your original argument that black lives matter. You have to look, identify, research, and search for facts. It's extremely important. It's also really important to place a time frame on these incidents.
You twisted my statement. I never said it's OK to make people miserable. I said it's understandable to lock your doors when a group of young black males walk by your car, or for a woman to clutch her purse, or piss herself with fear. With the amount of barbarous violence from African Americans. Do you think all white people bare responsibility for the acts of the few whites? Condemning whites (Risking Fragility), not individuals is a mistake that undermines your efforts. Exclaiming that "black lives matter" undermines your efforts and will raise tempers. Understand that not even the greatest number of African Americans are on-board with this statement. They know it's a racist agenda. Most African Americans are not this deluded, and most are not violent.

This is the new Knockout game: http://clashdaily.com/2014/12/savage-burning-whites-new-knock-game-blacks/

RANDY JOHNSON
9/1/2015 07:46:25 am

Why not display the links to YouTube stories that are important evidence that erodes belief that all blacks are behind this effort? You can answer toward those videos of African Americans that are not in favor of African American violence, and they are not behind the black lives matter. They're not pointing outward to describe the reason for problems and violence within the AA communities. They're taking responsibility. They have an internal locus of control. I will always support those who are willing to help themselves. There are hundreds of these videos, which probably represent a much larger number.

Reply
Abraham Lateiner
9/1/2015 08:13:14 am

Randy, as if it couldn't get any better, now you're throwing in the "Look! Not all Black people agree that Black Lives Matter is a good idea!" argument. Dude. Please google "internalized racism." All further comments will be rejected until you acknowledge:
1. Black people can't be racist against White people, only prejudiced.
2. Black people are actually independent organisms with brains and ideas of their own. They don't actually agree on everything. You discrediting a movement based on this makes you look really childish.

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    Abe Lateiner

    If real change requires people to take risks, what would it mean for a straight, White, cisgender male, tall, thin, able-bodied, English-speaking US citizen with class privilege to take risks?

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